Wikibooks talk:Strategy guides

Undeletions

Now that Wikibooks has accepted video game strategy guides, can certain pages (ex. Mario Kart DS) be undeleted? 2005-Fan (discuss • contribs) 14:44, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

@2005-Fan: Done, but in future, use WB:RFU to request undeletion of any page, linking to this policy if needed. Leaderboard (discuss • contribs) 16:18, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Is there a way to check for deleted members of a category? Sj (discuss • contribs) 02:38, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
@Sj: What do you mean by "deleted members of a category"? Leaderboard (discuss • contribs) 17:28, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
All past strategy guides, for instance... it's quite hard since we don't track cat membership per se. So I suppose I answered my own question :) Sj (discuss • contribs)

StrategyWiki import

Posting here to indicate a large amount of content is being transwiki'd from strategywiki:, effectively duplicating the content. Further discussion is Wikibooks:Reading room/Proposals#StrategyWiki. -- Prod (discuss • contribs) 23:28, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

For some historical information about the game guides policy/migration of many guides, a discussion can be found here. Many of the other guides that were on wikibooks at the time had a similar internal discussion. The editors for each guide decided where they wanted to take the contents, to make sure that the content didn't get simply abandoned in a new place. -- Prod (discuss • contribs) 15:19, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

My amendment proposal

Now that Wikibooks has accepted video game strategy guides, can certain pages (ex. Mario Kart DS) be undeleted? 2005-Fan (discuss • contribs) 14:44, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

@2005-Fan: Done, but in future, use WB:RFU to request undeletion of any page, linking to this policy if needed. Leaderboard (discuss • contribs) 16:18, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Is there a way to check for deleted members of a category? Sj (discuss • contribs) 02:38, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
@Sj: What do you mean by "deleted members of a category"? Leaderboard (discuss • contribs) 17:28, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
All past strategy guides, for instance... it's quite hard since we don't track cat membership per se. So I suppose I answered my own question :) Sj (discuss • contribs)

StrategyWiki import

Posting here to indicate a large amount of content is being transwiki'd from strategywiki:, effectively duplicating the content. Further discussion is Wikibooks:Reading room/Proposals#StrategyWiki. -- Prod (discuss • contribs) 23:28, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

For some historical information about the game guides policy/migration of many guides, a discussion can be found here. Many of the other guides that were on wikibooks at the time had a similar internal discussion. The editors for each guide decided where they wanted to take the contents, to make sure that the content didn't get simply abandoned in a new place. -- Prod (discuss • contribs) 15:19, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

My amendment proposal

The following discussion has concluded. Please open a new discussion for any further comments.
I don't see any particular consensus for these changes. Additionally, the account of the IP who proposed this is currently banned from participating, and therefore technically the IP, so further discussion is questionable. --Jules (Mrjulesd) 13:43, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

all

Overview of policy

The main consideration is that Wikibooks has a number of policies and guidelines relating to content, and nothing in this policy supersedes these. Instead it provides additional guidance for strategy guides, which should conform with the purpose of Wikibooks as an educational resource that allows textbooks, annotated texts, instructional guides, and manuals.

With this screenshot from the game Celeste, the developer confirmed a compatible license with an VRT ticket, allowing it to be hosted at Commons

A freely-licensed image created to illustrate gameplay of the game Portal Wikibooks has strict rules regarding copyrights: see Wikibooks:Copyrights for the full policy.

In particular:

If you contribute text directly to Wikibooks, you irrevocably agree to license it to the public for reuse under the CC BY-SA and GFDL. Many sources will be copyrighted, and while providing citations to these are permitted the copying of content is normally prohibited; the doctrine of fair use should only be used as described by policy. If sources have licenses that are compatible with that of Wikibooks, then the importing of content may be feasible, but carefully examine licenses for any restrictions that may apply. Avoid plagiarism of any sources that you use for your guide; you should always attribute content to the original source. If in doubt over copyright, ask somewhere like the assistance reading room. If importing, make sure that the source wiki itself isn't in violation - things that may be fine there need not be accepted here! For instance, StrategyWiki allows using video game handbook content verbatim in articles, but this is not allowed on Wikibooks (except in small portions) unless the video game handbook itself was released under a free licence, which is usually not the case. Your only option would be to possibly upload the handbook itself as a non-free document. Screenshots and other media usage The usage of media, such as images, videos and sounds, is strictly limited by policy: see Wikibooks:Media for the full policy.

Media in Wikibooks usually fall into two broad categories:

Media in the public domain, or under a Commons-compatible free license. New media in this category should be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons; you can also search Commons for suitable media that are already there. Media at Commons may still be copyrighted, but their free licenses allow for their liberal reuse in books. Non-free media, which must be uploaded to Wikibooks, and only used under the strict terms of the non-free media usage policy. Non-free media are copyrighted, and the policy for their reuse relates to the doctrine of fair use in US law. Trusted users needing to upload non-free media can apply for local uploader rights, and other users can ask for non-free media to be uploaded at requests for import. Screenshots taken from copyrighted games are usually copyrighted non-free media; exceptions to this are rare, but the EULA (end-user license agreement) can be consulted to check this. Non-free media rules would normally apply to screenshots of popular games and series like Minecraft, Grand Theft Auto, Pokémon, Mario, and Sonic The Hedgehog.

Screenshots of open-source games may be in the public domain, or compatible with an appropriate free license; but carefully examine the EULA of open-source games as there can be exceptions. If a developer consents to donating screenshots, you may consider going through the Volunteer Response Team with them to make otherwise non-free media available under a free license.

Copyright issues relating to media can be complex, but a good place to ask would be Commons:Village pump/Copyright; but first read Commons:FAQ, Commons:Licensing, and Commons:Copyright rules by subject matter. To get around the restrictions on non-free media, graphical images and other media can be created to demonstrate gameplay, that are not screenshots nor restrictively copyrighted; examples of these can be found at Category:Video game gameplay at Commons.

Other considerations

Only include significant games

Please do not include strategy guides for video games that are likely not significant to the wider gaming community,however if your game becomes significant,be bold and do it! Wikibooks is not a place to merely advertise your or your friend's game. A useful rule of thumb is to look at review aggregator websites such as Metacritic or OpenCritic; if a video game listed there has garnered reviews, there is every indication that the game is widely significant.

Inclusion of games in other prominent review sites may also indicate significance. If there is doubt whether a game is significant, this should be discussed at venues such as the projects reading room.

Employ an academic tone

In general, an academic tone should be employed in strategy guides. Overall, the style should be that of the academic writing that you might find in a textbook, research paper, or encyclopedia. In particular, advertising or self-promotion, or other types of endorsements, should be avoided; and a neutral point of view, which is a fair and neutral description of the facts not opinions, should always be presented. It can be helpful to give a wider context to video game strategy, such as a historical or technical discussion of the game.

Avoid primary research

Wikibooks does not allow primary research, such as proposing new theories and solutions, and presenting original ideas. However, you can use video games as a primary source; and it is reasonable to describe elements of strategy that are likely to be encountered during a typical play-through of a game, like using the blaze spawner in Minecraft speedrunning. But opinions about the relative benefits of strategies should be avoided, unless they are obvious, like avoiding lava in Minecraft or else provided by citing reliable secondary or tertiary sources. It is preferable to provide references for citations of any secondary or tertiary sources.

Citing secondary or tertiary sources may also help in maintaining a neutral point of view; any controversial statements should be shown within the context of other opinions, and reliable sources should help in providing these. 96.18.219.55 (discuss) 16:51, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Proposal Discussion

Maybe instead of copying the text and changing it, describe the changes you want to make? -Gifnk dlm 2020 Happy New Year 🎄❄️⛄️🎇 (talk) 17:45, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
Agree with Gifnk dlm 2020 here, A diff would be helpful in understanding the exact changes being proposed quickly and efficiently. This also ensures no important points are missed - I had to manually compare the two to look this over since it was a textual copy and not a source copy.
After a careful comparison, I can see that you proposed two things:
  • "like avoiding lava in Minecraft" - This appears to simply be a clarification with an example? I'm OK with this, and perhaps with some polishing it could serve as a good example.
  • "unless the game is illegal." - You'll need to clarify why this should be an exemption to employing an academic tone, and I don't think this will pass muster as it is currently written. Illegal highly depends on where an editor is, and can include really subjective things like a game drawing a border on a map "wrong", or dip into far touchier territory. I'm sure you can see where this is going when we have editors from many different countries, and why this would need to be refined before implementation. In my opinion NPOV handles this quite well already, and readers can be trusted to make their own moral judgments of a text.
If there are other additions, I missed them. Please let me know if I can assist you with your proposals. --Mbrickn (discuss • contribs) 22:45, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
@Mbrickn:, I agree with you. No offense but “unless the game is illegal” is a stupid addition as some countries ban games for a career. That would mean deleting all books about GTA since the games are banned in Thailand/New Zealand/another country. Actually, I wouldn’t be surprised if most games describes in wikibooks are banned in at least one country. Seems to me like a loophole to delete them. -Gifnk dlm 2020 Happy New Year 🎄❄️⛄️🎇 (talk) 07:22, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
It seems as if those are the only 2 changes so I guess just someone was bored or something. I’m not against adding the example of avoiding lava in Minecraft but hold my opinion about “unless the game is illegal” being a dumb addition. -Gifnk dlm 2020 Happy New Year 🎄❄️⛄️🎇 (talk) 13:50, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
The words “unless the game is illegal” we’re removed but it seems the user updated the list of games to include more. I think it’s pointless as it isn’t meant to be an all-inclusive list and if we add too many games it will make it bulkier. I can go and ask why not the Legend of Zelda as well. IMO 3 is enough. -Gifnk dlm 2020 Happy New Year 🎄❄️⛄️🎇 (talk) 21:15, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
Also I think saying that if the game has become significant to be bold can stay. -Gifnk dlm 2020 Happy New Year 🎄❄️⛄️🎇 (talk) 21:25, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
Note that I will add statements in bold and remove statements in strikethrough. T. Gregtregretgtr (discuss • contribs) 21:16, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
Looks good to me!
Unsure if it's OK for me to add minor changes in proposals directly, but I'd add a few spaces in this section:
"community,however if your game becomes significant,be bold and do it!"
to make it
"community, however if your game becomes significant, be bold and do it!"
Thank you for your contribution! Mbrickn (discuss • contribs) 19:51, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Oppose I don't feel any of this actually improves the page. Specific examples I feel are best left out, unless they have a specific purpose they wish to illustrate, and none of these have from what I can see. --Jules (Mrjulesd) 13:26, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

StrategyWiki

So while importing is not allowed, do exceptions apply if there is not verbatim text from a handbook on the source article? For example, Donkey Kong Land 2 on StrategyWiki does not have any text sourced from guides, but I reused its text for our Donkey Kong Land 2 wikibook (the whole thing is rewritten & a link was given in the edit summary -- I mainly created it because the release dates were removed). 2005-Fan (discuss • contribs) 20:49, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Generally speaking, you should be OK importing from StrategyWiki if it doesn't include game manual text. Even if it does include game manual text, that is permissible under some circumstances:
  1. One exception relates to portions of verbatim text from a game manual, which is generally allowed under fair use.
  2. Occasionally game manuals are released under a compatible license, and this would be another exception.
  3. Things like tables might not pass the threshold of originality for copyright to take place, another exception.
Problems can occur, because wikis sometimes include improperly licensed content without it being very obvious. This includes all wikis, including Wikibooks or Wikipedia. One way of determining this is use a copyright detector, e.g. for example Earwig's Copyvio Detector to check the content. But it can still be very difficult to properly check text for copyright infringements. --Jules (Mrjulesd) 00:31, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
Gotcha, thank you for letting me know 2005-Fan (discuss • contribs) 00:37, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Quality of these "strategy guides"

The quality of many of these books is severly lacking:

and so on. This is your idea of quality? --2A01:598:A806:A544:3998:E85B:37A3:1A10 (discuss) 09:52, 1 June 2022 (UTC) @2A01:598:A806:A544:3998:E85B:37A3:1A10: This is a wiki, and you can improve the pages if you want. Garfieldcat1978 (discuss • contribs) 19:31, 4 March 2023 (UTC)