USING TABLES

For study purposes, personally I think it works a lot better to put the words and sentences in tables. Then it's easy to cover the left or the right part and then try to think of the correct translation yourself. This is the way I have mastered German and French as well. Very effective!

Is there anybody who has other ideas? If not, I will soon continu putting the other words and sentences in tables (or let someone else do it, if somebody feels like it). Shinjitsu 19:50, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you so much! Please go ahead and put them into table form.

But not in the upcoming days. I am going to Tokyo for a couple of days now... Maybe after I am back. Also, I would like to know from any of the moderators if this way is the prefered way on WikiBooks. Maybe someone also has a better or faster way to do it... There's still LOTS of work to be done!

Btw, I see by your ip-address that you have done a few changes here and there. Not considering creating an account? Regards, Shinjitsu 23:51, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Conversations in bulleted listings, "jumped" listings, or tables?

Who can tell me what is better?

This (bulleted listing):

Example 1: Mr. Smith walks into a shop.

• スミス: おはよう ございます。英語(えいご) を 話(はな)せます か。
• 店(てん)員(いん): すみません。 英語(えいご) を 話(はな)せません。
• スミス: わたし は 日本(にほん)語(ご) が すこし しか 話(はな)せません。
• 店(てん)員(いん): 大(だい)丈夫(じょうぶ) です。 わかります。

this (jump in with double point ":"):

Example 2: Mr. Smith walks into a shop.

スミス: おはよう ございます。英語(えいご) を 話(はな)せます か。

店(てん)員(いん): すみません。 英語(えいご) を 話(はな)せません。

スミス: わたし は 日本(にほん)語(ご) が すこし しか 話(はな)せません。

店(てん)員(いん): 大(だい)丈夫(じょうぶ) です。 わかります。

or this (table):

I can't make a choice. Although I have a light preference towards the 2nd listing (the "jumped listing"), since it's much easier to make (write) and the left part and right part are nicely horizontally aligned. Can't do that in a table, because of the furigana (the smaller hiragana-characters above the kanji). But the table does give some extra space between the lines, which makes it a little nicer to read...

I'd like to have some opinions here please! As soon as I have enough opinions, I'll continu with the conversations. Thanks in advance! 真実 - Shinjitsu _{To my Talk page!} 02:30, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely not number 1, the bullets do not make it look like a conversation. Until I read your description I could not tell the difference between 2 and 3, but the extra line spacing of 3 does make it easier to read. So I like 3.--Balloonguy 22:20, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Phrasebook or course/tutorial?

Right now this looks like a phrasebook, not like a course or "tutorial" as the name would imply. A phrasebook is something that people use for reference when traveling in a foreign country, so they could print out this Wikibook and carry it with them for reference (and due to coloring and length most commercial phrasebooks would be much more convenient to use for that purpose), but they can't actually learn from it. If you want to create a resource that people can learn from, you will need the following:

1. vocabulary list or word-by-word translation of sentences, because right now people can't guess which word means what
2. grammar section explaining how the words fit together, especially also the meaning of particles
3. exercises, exercises, exercises so that people can see if they understood the grammar and learned the vocabulary
4. ordering of taught phrases primarily not by topic (like "At the hotel") but by difficulty (complexity, tenses) and previously-taught grammar/vocabulary. The idea is that the lessons should first introduce the bare basics in terms of grammar and then build on each other (i. e. re-using knowledge that has been taught in previous lessons), introducing more and more complex phrases or grammar parts. Read the Wikibook on how to create a good language-teaching Wikibook!

If you'd like to create a mix between a phrasebook and a course, which allows for rapid language learning for tourists, I can recommend the method used in the "... tout de suite" series or even Michael Thomas' courses: introduce vital phrase parts like "I want", "I have", "I must", "I will" one by one along with useful words to go with them and teach phrase-building as you go, e. g. allowing the student to himself create phrases like "I want this book" or "I want to go to the pagoda today".

Alternatively, you could create word-by-word translations of your phrases along with the actual translation, like the Assimil method books do, and just provide a few footnotes on grammar and a few exercises. Then you'll just need a lot of phrases that people can use to "assimilate" the language and it's still recommended to make sure not to teach too complex grammar at the beginning. Recordings of the phrases are very important, too, because they mean much better retention.

I have provided a more detailed explanation of both methods in the Esperanto Wikibooks at , and there you can also find lessons plans you could adopt. If you want and if people here are actively looking to create a good Wikibook, I will help you further with the *planning* of this course, just send me a message on my User Talk page. My Japanese is not very good, so I can't actually contribute phrases and the like, but I'm a professional language course writer and I'd be ready to assist you by helping with the planning of lessons, showing you how you can write things so that people can learn from them and I'd play guinea pig.

Best wishes,

Junesun 10:18, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Totally agree. Maybe the title should be changed. Into something like "Mini Phrase Book"... 真実 - Shinjitsu _{To my Talk page!} 14:43, 14 November 2007 (UTC)