Commons:Bots/Requests/Wikiwernerbot
Wikiwernerbot (talk · contribs)
Operator: Wikiwerner (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information)
Bot's tasks for which permission is being sought: Commons:Bots/Work requests#Monuments database in Russia
Automatic or manually assisted: automatic
Edit type (e.g. Continuous, daily, one time run): one time run
Maximum edit rate (e.g. edits per minute): 12 edits/minute
Bot flag requested: (Y/N): Y
Programming language(s): Python/Pywikibot
Wikiwerner (talk) 14:47, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- Discussion
- Please create bot account and user page as well as perform test run. --EugeneZelenko (talk) 15:07, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- Well, something went wrong with the SUL; I already have a bot account at NLwiki. I have finished what you asked. Wikiwerner (talk) 15:47, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- Putting aside my view that this entire category redirect effort is a waste of time and resources, I’ll point out that for many heritage sites, no dedicated Commons category exists yet, and their images end up in broader categories like 'Cultural heritage in XXXX' (e.g. WLM/1040042000 - d:Q106547672, WLM/1040039000 - d:Q106547578, and another 43 elements in property P373 refer to Category:Cultural heritage monuments in Kondopozhsky District). How meaningful will the redirects generated by your bot be?
Example wikidata query: https://w.wiki/DsUv Olksolo (talk) 17:36, 21 April 2025 (UTC)- Given that Category:WLM/104003900 does not exist, it will not be redirected to anything. That said, neither that monument's item nor the other 43 items should be linked to a single category. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:42, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- You made a typo in the category name. However, it doesn't matter, you can find any number of more suitable examples among 38,000+ at that link. And the problem is that Wikiwerner's script does not implement this feature as you described. Olksolo (talk) 07:15, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
- Given that existing categories take the form of Category:WLM/1010021052 what else would you call the category for WLM/104003900, in the same series? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:04, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
- You made a typo in the category name. However, it doesn't matter, you can find any number of more suitable examples among 38,000+ at that link. And the problem is that Wikiwerner's script does not implement this feature as you described. Olksolo (talk) 07:15, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
- Given that Category:WLM/104003900 does not exist, it will not be redirected to anything. That said, neither that monument's item nor the other 43 items should be linked to a single category. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:42, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
Support as requester. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:42, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
- And how do you feel about the fact that a random sane person, seeing your redirect, returns the category to its original form? — Special:Diff/1022510862 Olksolo (talk) 07:17, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
- Your comment is offensive. Desist. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:57, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
- And how do you feel about the fact that a random sane person, seeing your redirect, returns the category to its original form? — Special:Diff/1022510862 Olksolo (talk) 07:17, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
- Why just not move files from WML categories to real ones? I don't think that redirects are needed. --EugeneZelenko (talk) 15:09, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
- The WLM/xxxx categories exist primarily to enable quick generation of photo 'galleries' for cultural heritage objects — a feature particularly useful for custom JS scripts. These categories are automatically added via the {{Cultural Heritage Russia}} template, meaning files can be removed simply by updating the template.
As I understand it, the original design did not anticipate manual category creation (many remain redlinks). The assumption was that file lists could be fetched via the MediaWiki API. While not an elegant solution, it works.
Unfortunately, these categories attract well-meaning enthusiasts who create them manually (even when redlinks suffice) and attempt to 'improve' them — for instance, by adding navbars (Template talk:Cultural Heritage Russia#Navigation_bar) — even if marked as technical or hidden.
The ideal solution would be storing object numbers in Structured Data on Commons (SDC), allowing galleries to be dynamically generated from this metadata. The first step (adding numbers) is straightforward, but the retrieval mechanism remains unclear. If implemented, WLM/xxxx categories would become obsolete.
Given this potential future improvement, I fail to see the urgency of the current redirect efforts. Olksolo (talk) 16:39, 22 April 2025 (UTC)- Why Wikidata could not be used for same purpose? Cultural monuments should have both categories and identifiers. EugeneZelenko (talk) 14:49, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
- Please, explain your idea, I didn't catch it... Olksolo (talk) 19:08, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
- depicts statement provides Wikidata item, Wikidata item - both cultural monument ID and Commons category name (in plain English). Shouldn't these be enough for generating whatever gallery pages? EugeneZelenko (talk) 15:10, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
- Could you please provide an example of how to generate a gallery page for images depicting e.g. d:Q125067097?Another problem is that although cultural monuments SHOULD have categories and WD-items, they mostly still DO NOT have either. Meaningful category names for these monuments cannot be generated automatically — they require manual curation. Today we have over 224000 monuments in our database, but only 75410 have a WD item, and just 51612 have any category assigned. Few years ago, I started exporting data to Wikidata, but there are many obstacles in this process. We still cannot consider our data consistent, thus my bot exports not the entire bulk of data but small portions that volunteers deem reliable. Nevertheless this slow, careful approach still leads to backlash, making the whole effort seem pointless. Olksolo (talk) 19:17, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
- depicts statement provides Wikidata item, Wikidata item - both cultural monument ID and Commons category name (in plain English). Shouldn't these be enough for generating whatever gallery pages? EugeneZelenko (talk) 15:10, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
- Please, explain your idea, I didn't catch it... Olksolo (talk) 19:08, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
- So we need another bot that adds the WLM id tot the structured data? Wikiwerner (talk) 17:20, 26 April 2025 (UTC)
- Why Wikidata could not be used for same purpose? Cultural monuments should have both categories and identifiers. EugeneZelenko (talk) 14:49, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
- The WLM/xxxx categories exist primarily to enable quick generation of photo 'galleries' for cultural heritage objects — a feature particularly useful for custom JS scripts. These categories are automatically added via the {{Cultural Heritage Russia}} template, meaning files can be removed simply by updating the template.
- I read this and the original bot work request at least twice, but I'm unable to follow. Can anybody please summarize the request in different words? --Krd 06:29, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
- Step 1 at the work request yields a Wikidata item: d:Q106488771. That item has got a Commons category (P373) property: Category:Threshing barn from Berezovaya Selga. Then we redirect the numeric category:WLM/1010021052 to the latter category. This is repeated for all 25 000 numeric categories. Is it clearer now? Wikiwerner (talk) 10:54, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
- How many edits at Commons do you expect in total? --Krd 16:38, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
- Probably thousands, with 25 000 as a maximum, dependent of how many matches can be achieved. Wikiwerner (talk) 18:31, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
- How many edits at Commons do you expect in total? --Krd 16:38, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
- Step 1 at the work request yields a Wikidata item: d:Q106488771. That item has got a Commons category (P373) property: Category:Threshing barn from Berezovaya Selga. Then we redirect the numeric category:WLM/1010021052 to the latter category. This is repeated for all 25 000 numeric categories. Is it clearer now? Wikiwerner (talk) 10:54, 29 May 2025 (UTC)
Approved. --Krd 07:52, 14 June 2025 (UTC)