File:Bosko, the Talk-Ink Kid 190613 LTPC.webm

The short may have been created in 1929, but it had been never widely available until 2000 on TV and then later on home media. Furthermore, it was first registered as (possibly) unpublished in 1979; search for its registration number "PAu000187801" on https://cocatalog.loc.gov/. Hugh Harman was named the copyright claimant, so the short would go by the "author + 70 years" term (Cornell chart). Harman died in 1982, so the short will be out of copyright in 2053. Sure, Internet Archive uploaded it as "public domain", but that contrasts contradicts the copyright registration and years of unavailability until the TV screening. George Ho (talk) 17:59, 18 March 2025 (UTC); edited, 03:46, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

A short doesn't have to be widely available to have been published as defined by U.S. law, right? On the other hand, if the copyright-holder died in 1982, isn't that all we need to know? -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:11, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

From what I read, the short wasn't shown in theaters throughout the 20th century. Also, the drawing of Bosko was registered in 1928 by Hugh Herman or Ray Friedman for copyright. Per this copyright catalog, its registration number is "G 82196".

The registration was I think literally never intended for short Bosko movies, including the whole (unreleased) short itself. Rather it was for the sole drawing of the Bosko character, different from short films, but I bet Harman or Friedman would've used the registration to protect the Bosko films, especially unreleased ones.

Well, if the registration applied, the short was no longer possibly protected as part of the registration for the drawing. I just couldn't find renewal registration on the sole Bosko drawing (1955, 1956). George Ho (talk) 04:36, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

So the short might or might not be public domain... -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:09, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

Let's invoke COM:PCP to delete by default in case of uncertainty. If that's insufficient, perhaps the Chapter 1, Section 103 and Section 104 of Title 17, Chapter 1 should guide you. As I interpret, the short film is an "unpublished" work and a "derivative".

Per 1976 law, it's independent from the mere drawing of the character, which entered the Catalog in 1928. Furthermore, the short's copyright should be different from the drawing's, which may not have been extended per Appendix A, Section 102.

Better yet, per Chapter 3, Section 303, the short film was technically unpublished at the time of 1979 registration; it was labelled "preexisting material".

As I believe, the 1976 Act replacing the 1909 Act—which was less clear about unpublished works, even ones protected under "common law" or "equity"—means that the 1976 Act applies to all unpublished works, including ones made before the Act went into effect, including ones made during the 1909 Act period. George Ho (talk) 08:23, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

I appreciate your explanations, but I nevertheless find a lot of this confusing. The closing admin will have to sort all of it out. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:30, 22 March 2025 (UTC)

Hi @George Ho. What you say it's very interesting. There are other obscure cartoons out there en:Parade of the Award Nominees, or Porky's appreance in Breakdowns Of 1939 (), which, even if rare or with limited distribution, were actually screened and premiered somewhere. So, the fact this short had no airing at all until the 2000s is quite surprising. Can you provide some source who say it was actually NEVER aired?

Also, doing my math, 1929-2000 is 71, so probably 70 years had gone after the 2000s publication. TaronjaSatsuma (talk) 15:23, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

Found the sources about "lost cartoons" aired in June 2000: Animation World Network, NY Daily News. George Ho (talk) 18:26, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

Thanks. I can't open the second link (not American). The first one says " BOSKO THE TALK-INK KID is the first talking cartoon pilot." It gives no more info about if it was actually unaired. Some of the other cartoons aired in that block were Snafu and an academy award winner, that were by no means unpublished by then.

Although your point is very well argumented, I lean for a  Weak keep unless it could be fully proved the cartoon was never released in the 20-30s. TaronjaSatsuma (talk) 18:41, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

Hmm... The two articles I gave you may not be enough. Here's one article by the Baltimore Sun saying that the short was among the cartoons making their television "debut". (Heard of Wikipedia Library yet?) Then I discovered it to be included in the special episode "The Lost Cartoons" (first aired in March or June 2000) of the Cartoon Network series ToonHeads (or Toon Heads). Another article wrote this: nine classic toons that Cartoon Network plans to show on television for the first time. George Ho (talk) 19:52, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

Oh, yes, I know of Wikipedia Library, thanks. I perfectly understand your point (you're defending it very solidly with solid sources), but still... tv debut does not imply that there was not an older theatrical debut. TaronjaSatsuma (talk) 20:41, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

Just for an update, the layout of the search results has changed: current page. --George Ho (talk) 06:53, 6 July 2025 (UTC)

@Clindberg: Would the first year this was distributed to theaters be what would be important as far as copyright? Abzeronow (talk) 22:01, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

For films, the publication date is when copies were sent to distributors (so before the actual showing). A screening under the control of the copyright owner would not be publication. See here for some further documentation. Motion pictures probably had the most publication-related court cases so those have relative good answers. Carl Lindberg (talk) 00:35, 10 July 2025 (UTC)